Hi, it’s Mike Rankin with Relational Advisors, and I’m really excited today to interview Brennan De Raad of Vessel Advisors. Welcome, Brennan.
Thank you. Great to be here.
Mike Rankin:
Hi, it’s Mike Rankin with Relational Advisors, and I’m really excited today to interview Brennan De Raad of Vessel Advisors. Welcome, Brennan.
Brennan De Raad:
Thank you. Great to be here.
Mike:
Yeah, fantastic. So what really excites me about today was when we had lunch, I don’t know, three weeks, a month ago, something like that. And just through the course of getting to know you, there were really two things about your story, and it’s kind of the intersection of two things that we love to do here at Relational.
One is talk about business owners, successful local business owners who are doing good in the community. And then also the journey, the second thing being the journey of a young person, maybe coming through college and out of college and trying to find their way. And so I thought what we could do today is talk a little bit about both those things.
And so why don’t we start with Vessel, and why don’t you tell me just a little bit about what Vessel does and what you guys are looking to accomplish?
Brennan:
Yeah, yeah. Thanks again for having me. Of course.
So Vessel Advisors, we do fractional CFO, controller, and back office accounting work. So a company that’s not big enough yet to start to hire some of those more senior level accounting positions or finance positions in a business, I think $5, $10, $15, $20 million a year, maybe even up to $100 million a year in revenue, depending on the business size. They need that and want that expertise, but do not want to have the overhead and the payroll and everything there.
So that’s what we do. And we service companies across the U.S. now. We have over 60 CFOs, and then many others that are on our back office team across a variety of industries.
I think what we’re becoming known for is really getting good at assessing what the real issues are. So oftentimes a business owner will have some fear, trepidation, concern, anxiety.
Mike:
Sure. Or all of those. Or all, yeah.
Brennan:
All at the exact same time at two in the morning. And so our job is to come in and get to the root cause of each of those. So maybe we’ll address the felt concern, but we’ll go a couple layers deeper and then attack it with the right resource.
So you might as a business owner think, I need a fractional CFO. We might come back and say, no, you really just need a strong accounting manager and you need a strong controller.
Mike:
Right.
Brennan:
Maybe in six months you need a CFO. And so that’s been fun. It’s been a good journey.
And it was kind of bought out or came out of a couple of companies that I worked with where I felt like when I was in a VP finance role or even being a controller that, man, I wish I had a couple more hours of this skill set in the business, but only for 10 hours a month, 20 hours a month, 30 hours a month. I didn’t need a full time. And it’s a fun space too, because you get to see a lot of really interesting businesses.
Mike:
Sure. I bet. So for a business owner, I assume that you start the process with kind of a deep dive into their business.
Tell me just a little bit about that aspect of it and how do you guys get to those root causes?
Brennan:
Yeah. We’d love to. So our approach is to look at the business from, again, a CFO’s lens and a controller’s lens.
So a CFO is known for being a visionary. So someone who’s kind of looking up and out, they’re usually more aligned with the owner and taking that vision and trying to translate it into, say, forecast budgets and then leading a team. The controller’s job is more day to day, week to week, month to month controls and process and precision, accuracy, all the fun stuff.
And there are two different ways of looking at the business. So we bring both of those individuals in to do an assessment on our full time in person ones. And then we’d like to look at it from a people process technology perspective.
So on the people side, we’re looking, is the team that’s there, are they competent? Do they have capacity? If there are gaps, what are those gaps?
It’s not good or bad. It just is. And it’s pretty common to have- Yeah.
Mike:
A whole range potentially, right?
Brennan:
Yeah. Like your CFO at a company may, or a controller at a company may actually be the person who is an accounting clerk eight years ago and they’ve just kind of worked their way up, which is great. There’s loyalty and a lot of skill and knowledge there, but they’ve also never done that job somewhere else.
They don’t bring other technology and tools that can come. So there’s the people side. We look at process.
So what fun SOPs exist or don’t. If the person who’s in there left tomorrow, what happens?
Mike:
And SOP being standard operating procedure?
Brennan:
Standard operating procedure, yes. Some people call it a playbook or a policy manual.
Mike:
Which I imagine you find a lot of small to mid-sized businesses. It probably doesn’t exist.
Brennan:
Yeah. It’s stuck in somebody’s head or maybe it was done three years ago.
Mike:
They know what they’re doing, but if they go on vacation or leave, it’s walked out the door with them.
Brennan:
Well, that’s a great example. So the CEO is then the payroll manager. The CEO is then the accounting manager for those two weeks or for that week.
And so we can do a lot there. And then the third of the people process technology is the technology side. And so if you’re in a company that has been doing things the way you’ve always been doing them, that’s not necessarily a bad thing.
It’s working, but you might be able to use some very basic FinTech tools that we can implement. More recently, there’s a lot of tools within AI that are becoming much more established for finance that can automate what you’re doing. Or even maybe you’re using a QuickBooks and they have AI agents within the tool.
We’ll help you set those up and ensure that they’re actually working properly. Whereas if everybody’s just kind of showing up and doing their job and there’s nobody to have outside eyes on the business, it’s hard to kind of pause and get out of the day to day and think about any of that. So those are the three things we do in the assessment.
And what that turns into is recommendations. So we have these insights and these recommendations. And then at Vessel, what we’ll try to do is dollarize them.
So you’ll get a, here’s what we observed, here’s what we recommend you do, and here’s the dollar value of that change. And we think you can do it, right? Your team, this person is capable, they have capacity, give it to this accounting person.
Your team doesn’t have capacity, give it to Vessel. Or there’s so much to do, we actually recommend you hire someone full time. And that happens quite a bit in our assessments too, where we’re not even the right fit because you somehow skated along for a long time.
Mike:
Right. Interesting. And so just looking back maybe over the last few months or in your experience, what are some of the things that kind of jump out that you see commonly?
And talk about those dollar amounts. Obviously those are going to vary based on the size of the business, but what are some of the things that you see that tend to be fairly common that jump out?
Brennan:
Yeah. So super common cashflow concerns and lack of forecasting. So a business owner is kind of winging it by the seat of their pants.
And maybe that worked when they were smaller, but now the zeros keep getting added onto the business. And so payroll is that much bigger each week or every other week or twice a month. Those insurance payments, those vendor payments are so much bigger and no one’s really sitting there going, hey, for the next 13 weeks or for the next 90 days, what does cash look like on a weekly basis?
Just to have visibility. So that’s probably eight times out of 10 we come in and either look at that or improve upon what they’re doing today. I think the other one is probably on the technology side.
Most clients won’t know what’s available. They’re still cutting checks or they’re still using a credit card they’ve had for 15 years. There’s so many opportunities for business owners to automate and speed things up while also still getting your points and getting all the things that we love as business owners.
So we can come and look at that. And if your spend levels are high enough, there’s real money to be had. And that’s where that dollar value comes is we’re not just saying make a change for the sake of making a change.
There’s a change there. And then probably more organizationally, I think it’s really common to have a lead finance role, whatever they’re calling it, a CFO, a controller, an accounting manager, to not actually be that in the organization. And so our job is to help translate, here’s kind of what you have from a talent perspective, Mr. Business owner, Mrs. Business owner. And here’s where we could maybe support you either on top of that person at an executive level, or maybe below them to give them some support that they don’t have good forecasting experience. They haven’t worked with an audit. They’ve never gone through an audit before.
They’ve never raised money before. Let’s help you with someone who has for 20 years, 30 years.
Mike:
And they’ll bring that skill set to the game.
Brennan:
And then we’ll back it back out. But there’s probably 30 to 40 kind of in the common set. And we do anywhere from 30 to 50 of these a year.
So we get to see a lot of really great opportunities that we can then cross pollinate across different clients.
Mike:
And then how do you share within the network of your own advisors? How do you share some of those lessons learned and connect those dots so that if somebody over here makes some discovery or insight, how do you then share that back?
Brennan:
Yeah, that’s a great question. We’re getting better at it. So this year, just in the summer, we brought in a whole bunch of…
We brought in our full-time team and then a bunch of our CFOs as well at our CFO round table. And one of the pieces of feedback out of that within the internal group was, man, we’d like to be doing this more. We would like to be doing this maybe not quarterly, even monthly.
How can we have a little more conversation? So we’ve been bringing in either practice group leaders from other vendors that we use, that we like, who have done great work for clients or that were on a client and watch how good they are and say, hey, can you come speak to our team about a single parent captive or some niche kind of tool? And then we’re big tech first users.
We’re almost fully remote. So we have Slack channels for everything and we’re constantly messaging. And so there’s channels for those types of things as well, where it’s like, hey, we just identified a really unique opportunity that should apply to all of our clients in construction.
Here’s the basics, but if you want to learn more, reach out. We can cross pollinate there. And even if it’s not a vertical specific thing, I mean, in the past, there might’ve been, you know, like when PPP and some legislation comes through and everybody’s really going to share all of that.
It’s like what’s happening on the ground. And that was over days, a couple of years ago, Silicon Valley Bank, you know, went down on a day and then Signature Bank and a couple others that went down. And so there was, that weekend was, was very active and very busy sharing information, trading, you know, what are your bankers saying, even if they’re not directly impacted, no one really knew for the 36 hour period, what was going on.
And so that’s an acute, you know, example of how we can use the power of the network in a short period of time.
Mike:
Well, I can tell you from my own experience, you know, when we met a month ago or so, whenever it was, and you told me about that, that, you know, kind of the audit and the results and what you do. I signed up immediately because, you know, we started relational five and a half years ago. And, and what you said earlier that the zeros and the numbers keep growing.
And so I did my interview, still waiting for the results, which I think is going to be next week. So I can’t wait for the hundreds of thousands of dollars that you’re going to show me that I can improve on. But, but in my conversation with, with Phil Stone, who was great to work with, by the way, did a great job.
And, and he said, well, so how do you forecast and budget? And I said, intuition, you know, which is great, but as the numbers get bigger, it, it requires a little bit more than that.
Brennan:
The revenue predictability, the cash predictability starts to matter a lot more. And that doesn’t necessarily mean you have to be right every time, but it does mean from a CFO seat, it means we might introduce the idea of a line of credit that you’re not going to use, but it’s just insurance policy. So let’s get a quarter million dollar line of credit, half million, million, multimillion, depending on the size of the business.
And the goal is to not use it. The goal is just to have it there in the event that some wild cash swing happens and we’re still comfortable. But the fundamentals of the business are still strong.
And yeah, I think, you know, all of our, like Phil is a great example of that, of we’re going to, we’re going to get in, we’re going to dissect, we’re going to ask some questions. And if you don’t know the answer, that’s, that’s fine. That’s normal.
Like don’t, don’t be ashamed of it.
Mike:
There’s an element of vulnerability you have to bring to the table as a client, I think to get the most out of it.
Brennan:
Absolutely. And I think we take that really seriously as a, you know, a trusted advisor and someone who’s being, being asked to hold, you know, a lot of sensitive information, confidential information. Sometimes when we get on a sales call, it’s pretty common, that that person hasn’t communicated some of the things they’re sharing with us.
So maybe their spouse or their banker or their CPA, because they just didn’t know how to get the words out. And we’re asking the questions in a little bit of a different form. Till we get to a solution.
It’s not just to say here are all the things that maybe are wrong. It’s, you want to build a business. That’s not where it is today.
You have a vision and a plan.
Mike:
Right, exactly.
Brennan:
There needs to be a financial translation of that vision as well.
Mike:
So, so let me share a little bit of a story and then, and then I’ll ask the question. When, when I look back at the arc of my career and in starting in the insurance business and being in the employee benefit advisory business, I mean, yes, you know, we, we do insurance, right? And you’re in accounting services.
But over time, my, my joy out of the business really came from, you know, coaching people, mentoring people, educating not only employees, but, but clients and vendors and friends. And you kind of build this, this whole network of people that, that you’re, you know, kind of helping move forward. So for, for you now today, sitting here with Vessel, having the success that you’ve had, what are some of those little more, I don’t know, sort of esoteric feelings about, you know, what you do and why you do, I’m sure family’s a big part of it as well, but.
Brennan:
Yeah. In terms of a vision and kind of where, like why we’re here.
Mike:
Yeah, yeah.
Brennan:
Yeah. Yeah. So, kind of maybe two ways to answer that.
One is personally, you know, nine years ago when, when this all got started I had been working at a great startup, fast growing startup up at Santa Barbara. And the only downside was it was all consuming, right? It was, it was six in the morning until six at night.
It was on email at night. It was working weekends. I remember pretty much every Sunday afternoon I was in the office with my team prepping for meetings and things on Monday and that’s if we weren’t fundraising.
So there was a season there where we had just had our, our youngest or third and I said, yeah, thanks. And onto four now, but we’re, you know, you’re in the situation where you go, like something’s got to change or something can’t continue. And at the time too, I kind of thought this is everything I, I really liked and wanted, right?
Looking for a startup that’s fast growing or we’re, we’re doing all the right things, but professionally it wasn’t, it wasn’t going to work. So that was one area. And I think now too, we’ve, we’ve really established like mission, vision values at Vessel over the last few years, been hiring for them.
And ultimately what we’re, we’re trying to do with the business owners to give them clarity and confidence in their business from a financial seat. We want to lead them from chaos to control. And so when we’re hiring and trying to bring people in, you know, Phil’s a great example, people that are used to being in that seat that are comfortable in these seasons of transition and change, or, Hey, things are going pretty well, but we might want to shake it up a little bit to make it better to make the jump.
And so we hire aggressively for those types of skills, not just what looks good on a CV or resume as, as many do. And then from a values perspective, you know, we value integrity. We value being accountable.
A lot of times we’re, we’re the ones proactively bringing the accountability to the table in a business. They’re, they’ve kind of been used to, well, this person kind of does it this way. And this person does this way.
It’s like, well, we said last Thursday, this is the, this is the plan.
Mike:
Right.
Brennan:
And now we’re changing it, you know, already a weekend. So let’s, let’s sit down and talk about that. And being, being that, that person at the table, which can be a little uncomfortable, I think upfront, but it also creates a lot of value for the businesses longterm to, to establish.
Yeah. We, when we make a commitment, we’re going to do it.
Mike:
Right.
Brennan:
Yeah.
Mike:
That’s good. I love it. And, and the, so kind of the second element that I really wanted to dive into that, that really captured me when you were kind of telling about your, your origin story was your college experience.
I think perhaps you had maybe worked for one of your professors and then, so, so share with me like that experience and then how it evolved eventually into, into Vessel.
Brennan:
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks.
It was, it was a, it was a fun lunch conversation. I remember. Yeah.
So my, I, I feel really blessed because I got to go to a great college and at that college they had your, your standard professors who were there, but then they had lots of adjunct.
Mike:
So you went to school in Santa Barbara, but you’re not a gaucho. I mean, let’s just, I’m not a gaucho.
Brennan:
Yeah. We’ll get that out of the way. I thought we covered it at lunch, but okay.
We’ll get it out again. Yeah. Yeah.
I’m a, a warrior. But we, so I was in economics business as a major and that’s the kind of the generic business major there. But many of the professors, they were adjunct professors.
So they were members of the business community locally, many of them alum that were coming back and teaching. So there’s, you know, law courses, accounting courses, marketing courses, real estate courses. And so as students, we had the opportunity, especially as you get to like sophomore, junior, senior year and take these classes.
I had, I had the great opportunity to work with, say it was Dave O’Dell, both as a student, you know, accounting 101, 201, real estate accounting, all these different courses. And then I had the opportunity to intern in some of his companies. So he had multiple, multiple businesses in healthcare and real estate in Santa Barbara that, that some of them are national, but they were headquartered in Santa Barbara.
And so that was our, my kind of foray into that. And kind of one of the pieces of advice I’ll usually give to students is get as many internships as you can, you know, go meet as many people as you can, because it’s a lot cheaper for me to learn that I don’t want to do accounts receivable all day in an internship for 10 weeks than it is to spend three years of your life and two of them in misery. It’s not that it’s bad.
That’s just, okay, that’s not how my brain is going to be wired or how I’m going to be engaged. So the, the amazing thing there though, is that Dave is a serial entrepreneur, but also a CPA. And so he had this really unique perspective of a rare combination.
Mike:
I think so.
Brennan:
Yeah. You know, we don’t, we don’t typically get, you know, the we’re not usually the outgoing quote unquote fun ones. But he had a ton of businesses when I got to work with him and then added more and more.
And so my evolution there from being in Santa Barbara being at Westmont was give me the opportunity to work full time in a couple of those companies right out of school and to get opportunities that as those businesses grew for me to be moved into a kind of like a GM or operations role where I would just report in every week on here’s, here’s what’s going on with this entity. Here’s what we moved last week. Here’s where I’m stuck.
Here’s, here’s the process. And I think that that helped me realize over time, you know, I kind of liked variety. I liked having a lot of different things.
You know, one company would be in healthcare. One would be a real estate project. One would be a, we did an MRI facility.
We did, we did a whole bunch of, you know, kind of looking back kind of random things.
Mike:
So that self-discovery moment for you or series of moments was, Hmm, I kind of like having multiple projects going at any one time, not just to, you know, one thing that I’m repeating over and over and over.
Brennan:
Exactly. Exactly. It’s like a lot of, a lot of kind of balls in the air and in a good way.
And I want to keep, you know, all of them moving forward at an inconsistent timeline. And then so I was there for a period and then I got to work for some other, at that actual location, there were a couple technology startups and things that he was working on. Even one of mine that was a startup that was in the technology space that I was kind of moonlighting on.
And through all that, I said, well, I want to maybe focus a little bit more. I want to spend a little bit more time in tech and focus there. So I ended up getting a position at a technology company in Santa Barbara.
And as that company was growing and growing, we were, I think Inc 12 or 13 that year, you know, it’s like the 13,000% three year growth rate. It sounds cool. It’s not, it’s scary.
It’s, it’s yeah, there’s a lot of processes, a lot of technology, but that job really taught me, okay, we can’t just keep throwing people or, you know, like literal human resources out at myself, my team, we can only work so many hours in a day. We’ve got to find technology. So that’s where some of the technology tools I mentioned earlier that, you know, vessel on the early stages of vessel, it’s like, okay, well, you know, a bill.com and Expensify back then. And now it’s, I mean, there’s, there’s brand new AI native accounting technology that’s coming out. That’s going to compete with QuickBooks and things that everyone’s used to as the norm. And so I think that also taught me, like, I like to be like in the early adopter early, you know, leading edge, even if it’s a little risky, and maybe it’s not the right fit for everybody.
Mike:
Yeah, right. Yeah.
Brennan:
I want to learn and I want to do that. So I think those are two kind of key pieces of evolution out of that, you know, that job getting to work with someone who had a, had a accounting CPA mindset, you know, like the diligence and the technical audit side, but also it was very entrepreneurial. And then, you know, getting to work in fast growing startups, you have to, you have to reinvent yourself, you know, because if you’re growing 15% a month or 20% a month, everything breaks, you know, every three, six months, you just can’t continue to keep up with that pace.
And so it forced me to go out and look at tools that we still, many of them we still actually, we use today at Vessel.
Mike:
Great.
Brennan:
It’s fun. It’s really fun. It’s a, it’s, it’s been a fun evolution of, I think in our space, people don’t think of accounting and finance maybe as the most, you know, exciting or it’s kind of a necessary evil.
Mike:
It’s like, Hey, where’s my report?
Brennan:
But there’s so much going on to speed up reporting, to allow folks in our space to be more, more analysts, you know, more providing insight and recommendations as opposed to kind of just doing accounting because so much of the automation is, is coming down to the small business level.
Mike:
So when we take a step back and we look at and we look at your career over time, and if we take that, you know, kind of college and early early twenties, mid twenties what would be some of the elements of advice that you would give to somebody who’s trying to kind of navigate that path? One I heard was, you know, when you’re in school, get as many internships as you can, as many touch points as possible. What are some of the other things when you look back on your journey that, that would come to mind you would share?
Brennan:
Yeah, I think another one I read, I read a book called never eat alone when I was in college and it was a concept of just getting out and, you know, having coffee or having lunches and meeting with people. And it wasn’t for necessarily a core purpose, but I think when you’re in school, you can say, Hey, I’m looking, I don’t know what I’m going to do. Like, tell me more about your industry.
I have an interest in four industries, meet with five or 10 people in every one. And if you’re already still in school, your alumni networks usually are going to, it’s usually not a no, it’s just a, you know, when can you fit it in. So leverage that.
But I think even coming out of it, maybe one of the best things about being in a, in a relatively small town, like, you know, Santa Barbara was, this is you know, there’s like six coffee shops, you know, so we can, everybody kind of sees everybody. Um, you can go sit down and meet with someone and probably bump into two or three others, you know, every day that you’re doing that, make sure two, three, four days a week, you’re, you’re putting one of those in the calendar. And over time, there’s both a compounding of knowledge and then just some of the relationships, you know, my best friends that I, I have still from school, you know, going to that bucket, but also people that I had the pleasure of working with or that have, um, become vessel clients, you know, over, over time, right.
Are a result of, you know, coffees and meetings we had, there was no agenda. It was just to kind of get to know what’s going on. Um, I think if, and if that, if that’s hard for you, I’d say push yourself to get out of your bubble.
Like it’s, it’s, uh, it will be uncomfortable sometimes. It’s not always a, it’s not always a fit, uh, so to speak. Um, but like, you know, you know, we just had lunch, you know, a month ago and we’re having a great conversation.
I wish we would have had, you know, two hours for that lunch. We were, we had a plenty to talk about.
Mike:
Well, it’s so amazing. You say that, sorry to jump in, but like what you were just saying, a couple of things that just hit me like a lightning rod. One is you use the term of compounding of relationships.
And that is something that I’ve, you know, talked about for years and believe in, you know, I mean, investments compound over time, but, but so do relationships. Uh, but you’ve got to start. And, and the other is, you know, we now have a senior in college, Gaucho, sorry.
Uh, and, and I said, you know, it’s a more difficult job market today than it was even two to three years ago, especially for, you know, newer, newer graduates. And I said, you know, you’re, you getting a, a job or not is going to be more of a function of how many people you talk to. If you talk to one person and you’re asking for a job as opposed to a thousand people.
And, and so you think about that, the it’s, it’s the number of opportunities that you can, you know, overturn and, and just that idea of networking. And for a lot of, you know, young people, college students, that’s not a natural thing. You know, they’ve been on email and they, they very social within their own groups, but, you know, breaking out of that can be scary and painful.
Brennan:
Or even just asking for it. And as you’re saying that it reminded me of something. So when I was at Westmont, I thought I wanted to be in real estate development.
I wanted to get a master’s real estate development from SC and I’m red and I was going to go do that. The only trouble was, uh, I think it was, I graduated in December of 08. So it was right, right about the, uh, you know, maybe it would have, it would probably worked itself out.
But the summer before that, I had a whole plan on how I was going to meet up with, uh, I think it was 10, I think I had lunch with 10 different people that had been in the MRI program or were in the MRI program at SC. And that was the concept was okay. If I can learn as much about what was good and bad.
And then I have 10 people that potentially would at least say, yeah, he met with me or there’s a reference point. Maybe that would help a little bit in my application if I was going to go there, chose not to do it. So, um, but in retrospect, like that’s, that was a, you’re taking shots.
You’re trying to figure out what’s going on and met some amazing people who, um, you know, you stay, maybe I’ll connect on LinkedIn or you see each other at an event and go, what’s going on. And they’re, you know, they’re building the next huge thing in LA or Orange County or across the country. And it’s just fun.
You know, there’s, I don’t think there’s a downside to going to meet people.
Mike:
Yeah. I told Billy, I said, you may not go into sales, but your first sale is getting a job. That means it’s you, right?
You, you need a, uh, you know, a pool and people to go talk to. And so that’s great.
Brennan:
Yeah. And I think, I mean, no matter what job you’re into, just as a, another side, even in our business, you know, everyone’s in sales. Everyone’s, you know, whether you’re doing the job and you’re doing it well, you’re selling because you’re proving the model or you’re actually deemed as, Hey, I have to, I have to have a quota and I got to bring in numbers.
So I think it’s just a great skillset and probably a really good differentiator in the market right now. And so much of the data research information, you know, it’s just, it’s at our fingertips faster and easier than it’s ever been before. There’s agents for, you know, you design an agent for anything.
Well, you can’t necessarily do that for the relational connection that people are going to have, at least I hope not, you know, not in the near future.
Mike:
Right. Thanks for the plug, the relational connection.
Brennan:
There you go.
Mike:
Actually, you know, that’s the whole reason that, uh, that, yeah, it’s locked to the name. Okay. So if I am a business owner of a five to 10 to 15 million, $20 million shop, uh, whatever the number is there.
Uh, and I’ve kind of got that little inkling of, Hmm, maybe I should have somebody take a look at this. How do we find you?
Brennan:
Yeah. Um, so we’re on, uh, online at vesseladvisors.com. Um, you can email us, listen at vesseladvisors.com.
Um, and we’d love to just jump on a quick call and learn a little bit more about what you’re doing and what that concern is. And, um, I think we’re really good too, about knowing when it’s a fit for us and how we can help you. And then if, even if we can’t, if you’re not ready yet, there’s resources in the market.
And if you’re ahead of what we do, there’s resources in the market. So.
Mike:
Sounds great. Brennan, thank you so much.
Brennan:
Really appreciate the time.
